Alternative treatment.

Hello Ralucescu, i dont think there is an alternative treatment that is based on plants and homoeopathic that can
cure lung cancer, maybe if conbined with other treatments like chemo thay might releave some symptons, but
with any alternitive treatment you have to be careful and know what your dealing with.
What treatment has your father had, and do you know the grade of his cancer. I know how upsetting it is to find
out your loved one has got cancer, we grab at anything hoping it will make things better, if there was anything
other than chemo, my dear husband would have tried it , anything to give him more time to spend with his two
grandchildren, he took everything the doctors could throw at him, but it was to late for him. I hope your dad gets
better with treatment, but ask his doctors before he tries plants and the such, you really do have to be carefull.
I send you a big HUG, and please let us know how you get on and i wish your dad well.
Love Pat. xxxxxxx

hello, i am so sorry to hear abour your father.

As Patricia said there is no alternative cure for lung cancer although there are many bogus sites that say there are. On sites such as this there are many people pounce on us with their get well quick without chemo messages which are only there to line their pockets. As cancer sufferers we are all desperate for cures but these do not work and are very expensive. Some tried and true alternatives work alongside conventional chemo etc to help with side effects but you have to make sure the practitioner is well qualified and knows what they are doing.

I send all good wishes for you and your family.

janis

I wouldn't be thinking Alternative, just Comlementary Ralucescu. Something that works alongside the chemo and western therapies. When i was diagnosed with HCL my hospital had a complementary ward and i tried many therapies but the one that helped me relax and help the chemo flow deep into my body was Reiki. It relaxes the body to such a deep level and seems to help the body repair its self.
I wish your Father all the best with he's battle with ill health
....Bobby....

Cancer Research UK's page on choices in lung cancer treatment is here:

http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/help/default.asp?page=2956

There are no effective alternative treatments, but as others have pointed out, there are many crooks out there who will suggest differently.

If you still want to look into complementary therapies, they also have a page on that:

http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/help/default.asp?page=216

Note however that to the extent that they have any effect at all, complementary therapies may interfere with conventional treatment:

http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/news/archive/pressreleases/2004/january...

There are lots of palliative and acute compliments in the alternative therapies. There was another post on homeopathic and you will see there are a lot of very controversial and sometimes militant views on the subject. Don't be deterred. If my husband is nausous they want to give him a pill to suppress, when a cup of peppermint tea will do the trick. If it doesn't then by all means take the pill, but I have for many years been able to successfully care for my family in ways that don't look like I'm killing a fly with a sledge hammer. Good luck in your journey. Best, Lori

http://www.leukemia-lymphoma.org/attachments/National/br_1150734030.pdf

yes its strange that the most noise against complimentary therapies is by people who have never tried them, and as you said there is always the pill to take if the peppermint tea fails. If it is just the placebo affect ,and all in the mind, well that is the stage where the most important battles with cancer are fought
Take care
....Bobby....

Glad you mentioned the placebo Bobby. Why do you think they use the placebo in clinical trials - because they know if you THINK you are taking a pill that will heal you it will heal you. So even medicine clearly understands the unknown quantity of the mind and spirit in the healing process, they just are looking for the cures medically - fair enough. In Lance Armstrong's book Its Not About the Bike you don't find out until the very end of the book just how low his chances were to actually beat the cancer. Its quite shocking. We will never know how hard Lance would have fought had he known the truth of the numbers. Fascinating.

Mental State has no effect on the outcome of cancer.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-10/jws-csi101707.php

Placebos are indeed very interesting, but they only have effects on how the patient feels, or on things like blood pressure directly linked to this.

They have no effect on progression of cancer. There is no scientific evidence to suggest otherwise.

i have tried alternative therapies but found that they have no effect on my body at all.

I should add my voice to the extreme danger of expecting any alternative therapy to work on your father's cancer. They can be very helpful in dealing with the side effects of the treatment.

I haven't tried Reiki, but it is well thought of, and a very Positive Mental Attitude does help, even if you won't get a Scientist to admit it. Just coincidence that the people who intend to fight it and keep cheerful seem to recover very well, and have a very much better time. But they still have surgery and Chemotherapy. It is like wearing a belt and suspenders as well.

If your father has to go into hospital, try and get him out as soon as possible, and make sure everyone washes their hands. You will have to check that any needles used are very clean. Take your own syringes and needles and boil them first. Of course, plastic ones don't boil, so see if you can find some metal ones in junk shops. I may be talking nonsense, but if it sounds sensible and you know where you can get new sealed ones, try and get some of those. I should think the staff would be grateful if they can't get hold of enough for their patients. If his oncologist suggests chemotherapy in tablet form, just make sure he takes them exactly as instructed.

Also, try and have some quality time with your father. Some of the days out that I have had have made a lot of difference when I felt very ill. Just sitting by the river can make you feel a lot better for a while.

Keep us informed of his progress.

Rwth

It's not that scientists will not admit it. That would imply that they can see that the evidence shows it works. The evidence clearly shows that it does not. It is not the scientists who are in denial here.

Firstly sorry to hear about your poor Dad. I can imagine that it must be very very difficult to get adequate treatment out there. I have terminal cancer, and after being jettisoned by the doctors, was allowed to have some complementary therapy at the hospice. Whatever the official position on this, I found that aromatherapy massage has helped me, namely: It turned me back from an NHS number going through a production line back into a human being with my own name again (psychologically beneficial). It gave me my dignity back (ditto) . I found it helped me to relax (physical and psychological). It helped lessen the extreme anxiety I was suffering after the diagnosis where no regular medical monitoring had been offered (psychological). It has helped me come to terms with the prognosis (ditto).

It may not be quantifiable yet, in terms of percentages - but then according to the doctors' percentages I should 100% have died within 3-4 months as I was told - not still be going rather well 17 months down the line. Ergo the doctors are not 100% right in what they believe 100% of the time! I am once again having a course of aromatherapy. I do feel a stronger person, and it seems from CT scans that my cancer may not only not have spread but actually retreated a bit. I have not had any other treatment of any kind in the last 19 months. The only other measures I have taken are to kick all the crap out of my diet and to give up alcohol.

I do not look upon Aromatherapy - or any other complementary therapy - as an attempt at a cure. The key word is "Complementary". I have this at the local hospice, and the aromatherapist used to be a nurse. She uses only effleurage and small circling movements with clients - which is why cancer patients are not advised to go to just any high street practitioner. I just remember that when first had the treatment I was going there in a taxi and walking part of the way home. I now haven't used a taxi for months.

I would be very suspicious of any product with the word "miracle" attached to it, and have never bought anything off a website.

I do think it would be interesting for doctors to take more notice of patients who do buck the trend. Why have we done so? It seems almost that they want to sweep us under the carpet as not fitting with their statistics, instead of examining WHY this might happen.

However - it must be Seanty's photo triggering a Pavlovian response in me there - my main point is to wish you all the very best for your father. Just try to make sure that he eats as good a diet as possible, rich in vitamins and minerals, protein, and roughage, and drinks plenty of clean water. Sending you hugs xxxx Penny

On the subject of survival times and percentages, this is a worthwhile read for anyone who has not read it:

http://www.cancerguide.org/median_not_msg.html

No-one beats the odds. Some of us are just on the winning side of them.

On the complementary stuff, I'm all in favour of looking on the bright side and having a bit of a massage myself. It's when people start claiming it will alter the course of cancer, or pressuring people to pretend to feel better than they do I find it necessary to correct them with the evidence.

All the best
Seán

How much has your negative attitude helped you? It's a fair question.

Actually, my sister is a doctor, and she has told me that my PMA has given me a much better chance, alongside the surgery and chemotherapy of course. My surgeon and oncologist are always glad to see me because I smile and look happy. It gives their treatment the best chance of success.

Stuff scientific evidence, I have enough evidence right here. I am in remission. Just step on your own nightmares and leave everyone else's dreams alone.

I'm sorry, I didn't realise that your sister is a doctor. Of course that makes your unsupported opinion worth more than any amount of scientific research. LOL.

I don't have a negative attitude, I have a realistically positive attitude, (unless you are going to tell me that your cousin is a psychiatrist, and you can therefore know what my attitude is better than me, based only on a few posts to an internet board)

Your claims about PMA are groundless, but of course, as you say, you have no interest in the facts, you prefer dreams. Dream all you like, but don't tell people your dreams are equal in evidence to scientific research, and expect no contradiction.

You have had the full benefits of conventional medicine, which you seem irrationally to be giving it little credit for your remission, believing insisted that it was smiling which saved you. Why can't I imagine you smiling as you write your posts to me on here? If smiling is going to save you, you might be best not to read any more of my posts. It might prove fatal. LOL.

My feeling on all of this is that if a person feels something works for them then don't knock it.

It might be groundless but it also might help that person to cope with their diagnosis. Knocking people's beliefs (and that's what it is) is a dangerous thing to do - it's not harming anyone else so respect their views/beliefs.

I am realistic and know that my advanced cancer will get me at some point or other and that I won't make 'old bones' (having come very close to it two years ago and only improved because of the chemo offered at that time and which I'm still on) and I also realised at that time that no amount of 'positive' thinking or taking stuff would have helped me at that stage.

But I also believe that having a realistic and half full cup attitude is better not only for us as patients but also those around us. I have a friend who has advanced cancer as well and she is just a drain to everyone because of her negative and doom and gloom attitude.

We all need to know (or believe) that there is hope. I've been living with this disease for nearly 14 years, 4 with advanced and it's taught me a lot.

Really, Sheena? Even this guy?

http://www.whatnow.org.uk/cancer-forums/spiritual-healing-cancer-and-oth...

I agree with you that it looks suspect and why is he posting on a cancer forum?

I also don't agree with anyone who says they can 'cure' cancer and feel that these type of people prey on people who may be desperate. That wasn't really my point though Sean - it's about people having a belief in something that others of us may not agree with but it's about respecting it.

I do try to, believe it or not.

I'm an atheist, but you won't ever see me over on the "prayer help" section poo-pooing people's religious beliefs. I try to restrict myself to when people make claims to alter the course of the disease using means which are known to be groundless. I also try to be no harsher with people than is required to be effective.

People can belive what they want, but I think there is a difference between your right to believe something, and a supposed right to promote those beliefs. I think if a person posts falsehoods to promote their beliefs, they should expect to get called on it.

This thread was started by someone wanting to know if alternative methods were effective for lung cancer. Allowing people to suggest that there are, (when this is not the case) is allowing someone with a life-threatening illness to be misled.

I personally believe that the prevention of such misinformation in a life-or-death situation is a greater good than the kindness of allowing people to beleive in comforting fairy-tales.

This moral evaluation is not however scientific, and I can see that others may weigh things up differently. Such people should act in accordance with their consciences, but allow me to act in accordance with mine.

Thanks for disclosing you are an Atheist, it is helpful in understanding your views and purpose. When treating "meat bodies" you are quite right. I however, am not one of those. :) Presenting both points of view is excellent to assist someone in making a decision. However, some is their "opinion" and so stated and that is fair also.

So what is your body made of, if not flesh? If that isn't too personal a question? LOL.

Talking of full disclosure, "meat bodies" is a term from Scientology. Are you a Scientologist, or do you just share some irrational beleifs with them?

There is no other valid point of view, there are no alternative treatmetns that alter the course of lung cancer. Religious beliefs or lack thereof is irrelevant. These are the facts. Not opinions, facts.

No. I AM a spiritual being who HAS a body. That's all I meant. Its not even a god view, just a personal one. In my opinion, God is a whole other subject that has little to do with my own spiritual awareness. I'm not familiar enough with Atheist or Agnostic views to know whether you don't believe in your own existence spiritually or if its just you don't believe in God. Would be perfectly willing to be enlightened on that distinction.

I can and have exteriorized from my body and know for me this is true. So treating the "body" is one part, a necessary part, but the mind and the spirit are the unknown quantity in medicine that most doctors and scientists acknowledge as part of the equation, but not one that they are concerned with, they are treating "the body" medically, and that is their job. I personally would never subscribe to using only mind/spirit "therapies" as being the end all be all of treating one's health. In my opinion that would be most irresponsible. In fact I don't think most people in this post subscribe to that view. The use of Alternative vs. Complimentary is often used interchangeably but have come to have different meanings over the years for clarification. However, having an opposing view to all the snake oil and false hopes and promises for vulnerable people is a good thing.

I have to say that I find you very very negative and very very depressing. I think I'm going to stop coming to this site, because I suspect you feel Schadenfreude trampling on other people's beliefs and hopes. How is it hurting you if someone else believes the moon is made of green cheese? When people are terminal and they manage to find something to comfort them it is so important - not to you, of course - but to them and to their families and friends. I HAVE beaten my doctors' prognosis: even if I die tomorrow, because they told me 17 months ago that I had only "3-4 months" - at best I have had 13 months more than they told me. Please do not denigrate that.

It wouldn't hurt me at all for people to tell others that magic pixies are going to cure their cancer, because I know it isn't true. It does however hurt the people who are so misinformed in a life-or death situation. If they were to act on the misinformation, they might die prematurely.

As with others who would like me to allow quackery to go uncriticised, I would say: If you don't like what I write, don't read it. If my time was probably short, I wouldn't be bothering with discussions of this type.

If you are still reading, I posted the link to "the median is not the message" for you, Penny. If you read it you will see what I mean. If a doctor told you you had X months to live, he was simplifying his understanding of the situation to the point where he was not telling you the truth. No-one can ever tell us how long we have. There are only probabilities for the group to which we belong. I am for example in a group who mostly die of melanoma, but I do not consider myself terminal. I will see what happens. I am dealing with cancer too. This is my way.

Facts are not denigrating to anyone, unless they set themselves in opposition to reality. They are neutral. It is unwise to set oneself in opposition to reality. It's a lot bigger than you.

As far as Complementary vs Alternative is concerned, I'm all in favour of genuinely complementary therapy, or whatever else people do or even recommend to others to make themselves feel more in control, give themselves hope or make themselves feel happier. However, this is only as long as it is absolutely crystal clear that this is in addition to effective treatment, and that it has no effect whatever on the progression of their physical disease. I don't even mind if people decide to forgo conventional treatment for themselves, as long as they do not try to persuade other to follow suit.

I am not however in favour of claims of effectiveness for so called "alternative" treatments which are neither effective nor safe on a forum populated by people with cancer. Unless I am prevented by the moderators, I will continue to present the facts of the case whenever I see the promotion of quackery. No apologies.

Hi Sean

I don't believe in pixies either, and I am also an atheist. And I agree that we don't want doubtful alternatives promoted here under any circumstances. However, sometimes your aggressive style has quite the opposite effect from what you want - you even had me investigating alternative therapies further. And that's the opposite of what we want. I see from some of your postings that you are very capable of writing in an informative, objective style without trampling on toes or feelings. I urge you to provide more in this vein.

Looking forward to more information...
Pat

The recent webchat feedback on here has a number of useful links on these issues. You can however tell that they were written by nurses, rather than engineers. LOL.

http://www.whatnow.org.uk/blogs/nurse/cb-nurse-amy/feedback-webchat-nurs...

Information about Essiac is given on the CRUK website.

http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/help/default.asp?page=24499

The bottomline is that there isn't any scientific evidence to support the claims and some of the ingredients can cause harm (to liver and kidneys). However, it is cheap, and some people have anecdotal evidence on its benefits.

Alison

Hi everyone.

An alternative therapy tries to treat cancer by unconventional methods instead of the usual medical treatment. Alternative therapies cannot cure cancer or control symptoms, and it is irresponsible to advise anybody not to
follow conventional therapy or to ignore advice from their doctor or consultant. Since Cancerbackup is dedicated to providing high quality, expertly developed information about cancer, we have a duty to try to avoid members on this site posting information that may prove harmful to those who trust it.

Since much of this thread goes against our guidelines on alternative
and complementary therapies but contains valuable discouragement for
those seeking  information on alternative therapies, we have closed it
to further discussion.

For more information on what is and isn't acceptable when discussing
alternative and complementary therapies on this site, please see the
Community guidelines as well as our site news blog on this topic.

Community guidelines
http://www.whatnow.org.uk/community-guidelines

What Now? policy on alternative and complementary therapies
http://www.whatnow.org.uk/whatsnew/what-now-policy-alternative-and-compl...

Thanks
James