Stress!

Hi Penny,

Have you tried/ been to the Penny Brohn centre?I am starting my chemo and was wondering if they would be helpful? Just wanted your thoughts. I myslef am pretty stressed at the moment and this is like no other stress previously experienced. A large glass of wine does not make me see the funny side!

No I haven't been yet but am seriously thinking of treating myself. I looked at the website and rang their number (0845 123 2310) and they sent a free double DVD. It is very interesting. The first disc is people involved with the centre, either as staff, advisors (eg Prof Sikora) and cancer patients talking about the ethos of the centre. The second disc gives information about self-help techniques - meditation, relaxation and imagery.

I was going to add something else, but my partner has just come home and it has flown out of my head. More later.... xxx Penny

Penny, sounds like she really meant 'challenge' not stress. I get very 'stressed' (ho ho!) when people witter on about stress being good for you, like it's some kind of exercise machine that makes you stronger and fitter blah blah blah.

Stress is always a negative experience, and there is no 'upside' to it (unless it's the upside of banging your head against a brick wall and it feels good when it stops!!!).

I think stress is an extremely significant - if hard to quantify/identify in scientific terms - contributor to ill health. A body and mind under stress does NOT do as well as a body and mind not under stress.

I assume the medics don't like the idea of stress playing any kind of role in cancer, though I fail to see why - for decades stomach ulcers were attributed to stress, and heart disease certainly is.

I would argue that people who poo-pooh the notion of stress contributing to ill health simply don't feel any stress themselves!

Julie.

Yes, I do know one or two people who seem to be wired differently and never seem to get assailed by self-doubt never mind stress. They do seem to be lacking a bit in empathy as well! xxx Penny

I agree with all you say Penny. The stress they are talking about works in a different way for them. They are talking about having that "Edge" that keeps you on yours toes. When I was young I boxed and before going into the ring you were always nervous, but in control. It had to be that way if you didnt have nerves then you were on a loser. The stress a cancer patient feels is totally different. We are dealing with something which more often than not we have no control over. The fears and anxiety that come with a diagnosis/living with cancer have to be felt to be believed. I believe like you that Stress has become a word that people throw in when they feel a bit nervous or cheesed off.

Terry

Its a subject[STRESS] that i have had an interest in
for many years.Like you Penny i think stress has a
lot to do with illness in people.
When we are stressed our inmune system falls, so
we are wide open to many nasty bugs.
I know many people, family and friends who have
cancer or had cancer that had been having a lot
of stress, and family and friends who have died
of cancer , well when i think back there was a
lot of stress going on in there lives.I cant see
how there can be a good stress,we are always being
told that stress is bad for us,its bad for your heart
and a lot of people cant eat or function when thay
have stress.So what do we do about it, simple, dont
get stressed,very hard that one, i dont think thats
possible in this day and age, people want to much
and in the process get stressed trying to get it.
Go on the london underground in the rush hour, do
that five times a week, my husband does, and his
always stressed when he gets home, not untill his
had a bath and a small whiskey is he safe to talk
too.now i have stopped working i have felt better
than i have in years, i try my utmost to avoid
stress, not always the case as its people that give
me stress, but i want to have a long life so i have
learnt to be more tolarant, i hope, and try to
have a laugh, even at my own expence.
So Penny after all my rambling on what i wanted
to say is i think you hit the nail on the head.
love and hugs LINDA. xxx

Yes, it's true that our immune system does seem to go down when we get distressed, and of course with viral cancers, that's when I think it catches hold of you.

Yes, I try to avoid the minor stresses nowadays by going round them, and by having finally learnt to say "no": I used to take too much onto my plate, feel I wasn't worth anything and lucky to be given what I got, then feel overworked. I don't really mean everyday stress though - but the real Biggies, which unfortunately we don't get the chance to say "No" to!

Interesting point, Terry - but what a useful skill - my goodness me! Yes, I'd call that psyched up - and I expect it's quite a primaeval feeling that wells up from somewhere very deep. I do like the people on this site - we are all so different - BUT it's just so sad that we're meeting for the reason that we are! xxx Penny

According to a hungarian-born psychiatrist (Hans Selye, I think), there are two types of stress - eustress and distress. Eustress is the 'good' stress, which motivates us to do things (better) and without which our bodies don't function optimally (for example we have to give ourselves the 'stress' of exercise to stimulate bone and muscle cells to grow so that we don't look like maggots). Distress is the negative type, which particularly occurs when you can't escape what is giving you the stress and you see no way out.That's what our students here learn in psychology.
Both must influence the body.
There was a good programme on TV here which said that what you believe influences it, too - that homeopathy works with those who believe in it just because they believe in it. There were studies done with homeopathic medicines and placebos - both worked just as well with those who believed.
So, friends and fellow travellers in this cancer route, it seems we have to promote confidence WHATEVER and act according to what we believe, be it concerning stress, treatment or .. whatever.

Pat

. ''They do seem to be lacking a bit in empathy as well! xxx Penny''

I know this may seem a little bit 'out there' but when we are stressed the message to the adrenals to produce adrenalin and then following the short burst of fight or flight adrenalin and other hormones the cortisol can remain elevated if we are under constant stress. The reason I mention this is was noted by a doctor I knew that people who's adrenal glands had been under a lot of stress when young tended to be empathic. I note also when I am on hydrocortisone for my illness I can become quite agressive, sort of in need of stress, so perhaps some people are running on high cortisol?
It seems according to alternative practitioners that high cortisol constantly eventually wipes you out and you crash. That could explain the yuppie flu thing that was very famous in the 80's. My point? I think some people with a certain chemical dominance will feel the need to challenge but not the negative stress of illness which we know really wacks you out.

It was funny you should mention empathy though, and just struck me when you mentioned lacking in empathy.

I think she has stress mixed up with motivation and challenge as was said also.

God bless
Whittersx

Eu-stress and Dis-stress - that's a good distinction. I'll remember it!

And I agree about adrenaline making you both energetic AND aggressive. When I'm working out I can feel myself getting both!!!!

It's an interesting correlation with empathy though. Maybe stress/adrenaline/aggression is inherently 'anti-empathetic' as the body/mind become completely absorbed in its own concerns (which in cave men time usually meant immediate survival), so we sort of 'switch off' from other people??

Lack of control over a situation is, I'm pretty sure, regarded as stressful in its own right, and leads to all sorts of things like road rage and so on. Maybe that's why it's so important when, faced with something nightmarish like cancer, to have something than one CAN control - namely, one's own reaction to it. If you can control your reaction 'positively' then it automatically makes the situation that bit less stressful???

Julie

the answers are fascinating. Agree with lots of the responses, and especially interested in Prof Seyle and his Eu- and Distress.

I've just been away for the weekend camping. Sounds lovely - but it POURED with rain on the Saturday. I managed to complete the nine mile walk - although I was the slowest on the extremely steep hill-climb out of the dale(bit of Eustress there!). Soaked to the skin, buffeted by high winds, and knowing that I was going to be sleeping on rather hard, rather cold ground that night with nowhere to dry my only pair of boots, I should have been going down with Distress. Instead, I was filled with happiness - and felt really rather well for someone supposed to have died 11 months ago.

Thank you everyone. Lots of love xxxx Penny

Nothing like camping to make you feel really alive (and in touch with nature in perhaps a wetter way than ideal!!!!!)

Hope you get nicer weather, next time around. :)

Julie

One thing cancer does for you is ensure you never whinge about little things again! Despite lashing rain and being soeaked to the skin, I managed to produce a constant supply of Endorphins to keep me happy, and, as with all holiday hiccups, it makes a good story later! xxx Penny

Yes - when you stand on the edge of the abyss, you certainly know the 'eternal verities'. When I read the papers now, and see all the silliness and stupidity and fuss going on in the world (not the real hard tragedy, that's different), I just think 'what idiots - stop wasting this precious, precious life of yours on nonsense'.

Julie

I have seen league tables that show a low level of stress being good for you. Sharpens you up and gives you a zest for life. High levels of stress can come from several sources - bereavement,critical illness, job change, house move. I firmly believe that these can injure you. (I wonder if Terminal 5 counts as High) This is why I generally advocate dealing with one crash at a time. Banning gremlins with too much attention, exercise in the form of country walks for those who can manage it.

I had a grim little phrase in my diary for a long time. "Resentment causes cancer". Not that everyone who has it resents someone, but that hatred and resentment can damage the person who holds on to them more than the culprits who perpetrated the situation. Don't get mad, get even and if I find myself obsessing, I drop it and think of something else. I can't change what has happened, I can only make the most of what I have now. If at first I don't succeed, give up and try again later.

When I was younger, I used to forget to take my thyroxine, in denial I guess, and only managed to do my chores by lashing myself into a big enough rage to get them done. Daft wasn't it. God only knows what damage I did to myself then, but I felt all right, just exhausted afterwards. Too tired to go to bed.